VX old model incompatibility research and potential mod effort station.

[arse22]

Hello,

Sometime before the closing of MG as we know it, there was a thread that was started somewhere in it's bowels, not by myself but by another. It was to gather interest how to improve or even completely fix compatibility of (specifically face) of old models and VX. There is no hope of the official VX dev team to fix this based on inquiries in the past and the fact that they chose to change and remove some sliders from the game as part of VX release in the first place, that primarily caused this incompatibility (along with whatever else,) is proof that leads to this general assumption. So, it will need to be a mod, that can do either some port algorithm program on the save files or as simple as adding the old sliders back in through an add-on, depending on what the solution is, I am not sure how far along this knowledge actually is.

It is a set of sliders before the Asymmetry section but after the first section, that was entirely removed and changed how the models would turn out for whatever reason. I believe this was the latest development in pinning down the primary culprit of the problem. In theory tweaking the sliders by hand SHOULD allow to produce the same result, but in practice it does not or it's slightly ever-so-off and certainly doing it for every model is hell.

I am no expert but I have been looking into this for a while, and think I should be able to mod something like this in after messing around with the scripts some more, at least adding the sliders back in since that seems fairly common type of add-on in VX, and the old prilypala sliders have been ported though not entirely to the newest version (but that's a separate topic for after of course.) If anyone wants to help, is interested in this or can offer knowledge on the matter, please feel free to contribute or aid in compiling it here. If someone is already developing something like this, please feel free to share in this thread as there is a good probability you know more than me if that is in fact the case.

I'm not really a modder, I can patch in some stuff per need with no guarantees and certainly not for release to the community, but I would love to see some mod/addon like this developed properly with testing and all, and this forum (KE) seems like a good place to get this started. Please post any knowledge, insight, ideas, files, whatever you got on the subject here.

[arse22]

Ok, it's been some months and I researched lots of stuff, putting it generously. Well, I definitely had more time to move some stuff over and spend more time with VX and try out version p to really see the differences.

This is what I have found, as a quick round-up, pertaining to the topic I originally posted:

-Prylypala sliders ported version in version p (the one on this site) works just fine, either version that was posted. All sliders are included, even the original ones from 7.5 that I thought were missing ( maybe missing pre-p?.)
-Hook looks kind of different, so there is some issue, similar to H4->H5 transition, though to be fair that transition was MUCH more drastic in terms how some models looked better and worse, the difference in VX is minor.
-In VX EMFS is no longer used, and you can select the basemodel (head morph I guess) in a dropdown under the headmod selection, which is probably where the secret to unlocking full compatibility is.

Some steps I have so far, when trying to port 7.5 models:
-I use head tri that the EMFS data would use.
-I try different option in VX like default01 or default02 etc to see which one is more accurate.
-set up a pose in 7.5 with camera keys with good hook lighting to copy and paste so I can get a clear picture where the difference is.

Honestly, I think this is issue probably more or less resolved, the models looks extremely close if not already identical, it's becoming hard to say. There is just some little situational tweaks that one needs to be aware of. At this point I am almost ready to write a guide on how to ensure proper model port, but I want to make sure I didn't miss anything and that I know the exact correct steps on which basemodel to select and etc.

There is just that one bug in EMFS that I am fuzzy on. See, when you make a EMFS body there was a options you could select to have it apply a basemorph like jenna etc to even a custom head, not always a great result but it's supposed to circumvent the problem related to model differences between using a replacer on a basemodel and a EMFS made model which usually uses base head (but this could be changed, no one ever did though.) Well, in truth I think this never actually worked, and produced some new hybrid of sorts for whatever reason, you would instead get a new result entirely. I am pipe dreaming here, but I think maybe with basemodel selection VX maybe now even this is possible since it's the game applying the actual morph or whatever it does.

I will write a full guide once I have some of this testing finalized.

 

[loki1968]

14 hours ago, arse22 said:

Ok, it's been some months and I researched lots of stuff, putting it generously. Well, I definitely had more time to move some stuff over and spend more time with VX and try out version p to really see the differences.

This is what I have found, as a quick round-up, pertaining to the topic I originally posted:

-Prylypala sliders ported version in version p (the one on this site) works just fine, either version that was posted. All sliders are included, even the original ones from 7.5 that I thought were missing ( maybe missing pre-p?.)
-Hook looks kind of different, so there is some issue, similar to H4->H5 transition, though to be fair that transition was MUCH more drastic in terms how some models looked better and worse, the difference in VX is minor.
-In VX EMFS is no longer used, and you can select the basemodel (head morph I guess) in a dropdown under the headmod selection, which is probably where the secret to unlocking full compatibility is.

Some steps I have so far, when trying to port 7.5 models:
-I use head tri that the EMFS data would use.
-I try different option in VX like default01 or default02 etc to see which one is more accurate.
-set up a pose in 7.5 with camera keys with good hook lighting to copy and paste so I can get a clear picture where the difference is.

Honestly, I think this is issue probably more or less resolved, the models looks extremely close if not already identical, it's becoming hard to say. There is just some little situational tweaks that one needs to be aware of. At this point I am almost ready to write a guide on how to ensure proper model port, but I want to make sure I didn't miss anything and that I know the exact correct steps on which basemodel to select and etc.

There is just that one bug in EMFS that I am fuzzy on. See, when you make a EMFS body there was a options you could select to have it apply a basemorph like jenna etc to even a custom head, not always a great result but it's supposed to circumvent the problem related to model differences between using a replacer on a basemodel and a EMFS made model which usually uses base head (but this could be changed, no one ever did though.) Well, in truth I think this never actually worked, and produced some new hybrid of sorts for whatever reason, you would instead get a new result entirely. I am pipe dreaming here, but I think maybe with basemodel selection VX maybe now even this is possible since it's the game applying the actual morph or whatever it does.

I will write a full guide once I have some of this testing finalized.

 

as of version P Avarteas added default values for EMFS bodies into the game,Avarteas told me this in a PM,at the time it was reverting my models to default fugly settings,I sent him/her the logs,the Garden went down a week later

So EMFS is still used in VX somehow,somewhere

[arse22]

Just now, loki1968 said:

as of version P Avarteas added default values for EMFS bodies into the game,Avarteas told me this in a PM,at the time it was reverting my models to default fugly settings,I sent him/her the logs,the Garden went down a week later

So EMFS is still used in VX somehow,somewhere

Yeah, I am putting it in the guide. It's still very useful for Avlook and looking up skin folder of the older, model_to_be_ported. There is other use but if you see my other guides, I dont go too deep. Just basics.

[arse22]

Ok, I have made some progress, still working on the guide but here is a successful test and port of a basemodel :

 

[MrOllyK]

I was having a conversation with @HDiddy some time ago regarding this and he figured it had something to do with the Customizer tabs such that if you add one it screws things up:

"I think I figured out what causes VX to screw up model faces when coming from 7.5.  It happened to me with this new body.  The answer is when you add a new tab in customizer it rearranges the order I guess if the face sliders...causing model faces to look extremely off.

Through me off and Oz got a model screwed up during testing.  But that was it. My theory is that when the new Customizer tabs got added in VX it threw off models from 7.5."

But I did some experimenting using vanilla versions 7.5.1.5, VX 0.57 and VX 1.00p:

"Flip through them, I can't see any difference.  Same with saving the 7.5 loaded face in VX1.00p, quitting, loading the original saved 7.5 face, then loading the latest VX saved face, no difference.  VX0.57 doesn't have any added Customizer tabs and I can't find anything in the ModelXXXX files relating to "tab ID" or something.  Maybe slight differences people experience have something to do with faces saved on 7.5 with Prylipala Face Sliders then trying to copy their models to VX, maybe head mesh mods etc."

As you can see you might have arrived at the same conclusion.  It's probably a head tri or some errant addon that changes things but as for vanilla versions of the game there's really no discernible difference.

[HDiddy]

The mystery continues....lol

[arse22]

Just now, HDiddy said:

The mystery continues....lol

There isn't one, anymore. As I showed in the update, it's entirely user error that causes minute difference (lighting, level def, using diff hair/brows etc.) Nothing actually changes with the head, at least as far as porting standard models. Once I figure out what butter to press in EMFS to do the non standard ones, I will have a guide to 1:1 porting.

[arse22]

I made a guide with some info: