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[Guest]

discussion about  shape of foot and bending and changing of ugly default shape

 

Edited March 7, 2021 by Guest

[Guest]

Thanks @HDiddy  for default female morphing body 

i think we need a new feet shape by good bending and natural shape just like       !!Custom.Body01.Disruptor   
height of feet is necessary to make natural shape in bending of toes and bending of foot. it looks ugly shape 

[Guest]

!!Custom.Body01.Disruptor  that i dont know make by who   but have good shape by fill top of feet during bending but it can not useless for default stand without high heel

[x17]

I have been working on one particular body project for long now - the feet are drastically altered, with completely new topology and look, and I have made many morphs for it from scratch, so it utilizes the maximum out of it. Plus, the armature is altered - altough not in drastic way ( the default bones are realigned in some places but no new bones are added ) and weights are completely remade from scratch, too. The result is much better, especially when arching feet or manipulating with toes. Multiple morphs now enable to align the shape of the feet to their choice, however, I will probably expand with even more in future ( for now, I have plenty of work with morphs on face, and all other body morphs are more or less done, plus I have made a full revision of all of them on body ).

https://streamable.com/bykrm7

 

So, overall, the result when I posed the new feet was pretty nice looking - no more ugly distortions and stubby feet, on old feet, the biggest problem was unnatural arch and heel on the feet, which was now corrected. The toenails are brand new ported with feet, and come with their own morphs, too.

[Guest]

i see this new project in modsgarden and i think one of the shape is so natural  that i cant find 
its very bad looking for new body mesh with out new foot or other organs in every new content
when we play the game someone look all things 
 

[onevision]

I wonder what will be the impact on PoseEdit after the adoption of such a body modification. Some addon shoes even react to certain poses in a peculiar way (gibidine's R9Shoe011 and R9Shoe012).

[x17]

@onevision

The shoes all need to be remodelled in my case - completely new feet topology, new weighting, even armature has been realigned in bigger way ( but no new bones in it ). But I think its a good tradeoff. The reason why I have put so much focus on the feet is that these feet will also make a second variant in case of G8 model in future, which I will also eventually port to TK17. So, I can reuse it, to one extent. The morphs are pretty good to achieve more refined look, especially when arching foot - I would say, the feet will look great in high heels and similar. No worries about footwear - as that I will take modding immediately after the body is finalized, so people will not need to wait for long at all for new heels for that body.

[x17]

@EJAX

In general, it is not good to have too many bones and manipulators ... we would need some full overhaul of GUI in PE to make more bones fully utilized without cluttering.

Sadly, because more bones means much more complex and refined models overall, where pretty much everything could be solved regarding joints clipping and movement of body and face expressions which would look far better.

Its just an ancient game - but one must admit, even for its "ancient" status, it fares very very well by modern standards.

[Euphie]

1 hour ago, x17 said:

@onevision

The shoes all need to be remodelled in my case - completely new feet topology, new weighting, even armature has been realigned in bigger way ( but no new bones in it ). But I think its a good tradeoff. The reason why I have put so much focus on the feet is that these feet will also make a second variant in case of G8 model in future, which I will also eventually port to TK17. So, I can reuse it, to one extent. The morphs are pretty good to achieve more refined look, especially when arching foot - I would say, the feet will look great in high heels and similar. No worries about footwear - as that I will take modding immediately after the body is finalized, so people will not need to wait for long at all for new heels for that body.

You know what, I completely forgot about your project and just yesterday I thought I couldn't look at that poor broken ankle anymore when the model has high heels and a straight leg at the knee (oh, you know what I'm talking about, in the game high heels are made to wear them in half-squat apparently)  You mean you managed to defeat that old monster? ^^

[x17]

@Euphie

Yup - it works nicely with new weighting. You can manipulate even toes to great extent ( only big toe and other smaller toes as two groups , but also capability with two morphs currently, which I think I will expand even more for PE ) - altough it would require new bones to make everything "perfect" in one sense. 

https://streamable.com/are20g

[x17]

@EJAX

 

You dont need a bone in every toe - while this can be "convenient", its actually not much point. What we need can perfectly be achieved with proper morphs. Altough, the smallest two toes being separate could be good for more precise weighting in arching. But morphs as they are ... theyre very capable.

We need to think logically, too ... for example, is it realistic for every toe to bend too much beyond their limitations ? Nope, because they look broken, lol.

So, when making morphs and eventually new bones, we need to take into account real anatomy - which isnt simple sometimes.

[Euphie]

Just now, x17 said:

@Euphie

Yup - it works nicely with new weighting. You can manipulate even toes to great extent ( only big toe and other smaller toes as two groups , but also capability with two morphs currently, which I think I will expand even more for PE ) - altough it would require new bones to make everything "perfect" in one sense. 

https://streamable.com/are20g

 Well, count me in for any kind of auxiliary job converting/making new heels for these feet   I'm going all in. I've waited too long and the default heels are the source of my daily shudders  

[x17]

@Euphie

 

Absolutely  ... for these new feet, I think it will finally end the era of breaking and "stretching" the mesh of shoes / heels to fit properly onto the foot. Now we will have a nice properly feminine look ... 

TBH, I cant wait to start making footwear for these - and ofc, it will be with multiple morphs. 

[x17]

@EJAX

Its possible ... altough, the question here would be - would it truly be useful for such extent of work ? 

TBH, I dont think so ... realistically, the toes bend anyways in only one direction, and the limitations of that could be reached through one single morph. Except if you want to make feet look like woman had problems with her toes regarding extensive heel wear, LOL. 

We would truly need a proper overhaul of GUI ( especially in PE ) in case of implementing more bones and manipulators. Its cluttered even now, because it was never planned to have so many manipulators. But who knows ... we can see more and more people add something brand new onto the game, its all about learning, digging and improving. My concept for something like that could be even to activate certain manipulators with a press of a button ... but I wonder if that would be even possible for this game. 

[x17]

@EJAX

 

Weights and morphs are different - weights is the amount of influence that bones have over vertex groups and vertices on the mesh. So in our case, the mesh of the body is weight painted according to the armature,

The weights can even influence the morphs, but that depends, as the morphs can be made to fix any "imperfections" when posing the mesh. So, the morphs are straightforward manipulation of vertices to achieve a new look of certain area without the need to reweight everything.

 

The morphs ( dynamic morphs ) we have only for VX ... where we control the mesh of body or any asset with sliders, the morphs that were made in Blender, then exported into the game. @Euphie made some amazing stuff, and she is the "main brain" behind the dynamic morphs you see today in VX. Overall, from what Im seeing ( recently when I dug around that sound code for that radio ) is that the game is capable of much more than we think or thought about ... its mainly just about experimentation and connecting pieces to understand what piece of code does what. And, unfortunately, its really not simple ... but its doable.

[x17]

@EJAX

 

HOOK doesnt have much connection to how body is posed and manipulated with ( well, for now - altough there are physics hairs ). HOOK is more of a "hack", graphical injector. Affecting visual aspect of the game by introducing proper PBR in the game.

 

Body and face are posed like this : 

1. Through armature posing in PE, where weights affect how the body is posed

2. Through dynamic morphs which affect small visual details on body or face, but can affect even poses. It all depends how morphs are made in Blender and what is the idea / intention behind the morph. Dynamic morphs can be implemented on basically anything - body, face, cloth asset, toy ...

However, from what Im seeing lately, I think were capable for even more stuff ... custom particle effects and even animations within the game on toys and other assets. This is something that I dont recall people dig into too much, but Berger knew about this before, and definitely some other users, like Raistin Kane. And lately MrOllyK. Especially the animations wasnt something utilized ... I think something is possible through scripting in H5, too.

[x17]

@EJAX

 

LOL, its possible ... and even MrOllyK made some different approach very recently, I think - check his mods, definitely.

But what I meant under animations is not necessarily an outside video format running on surfaces in game - its mesh itself in the game being animated. You can get an example of that on some default dildos ( which vibrate visually and with sound ) and also with some unique dildos ( that "warped" dildo and some kind of SF dildo, too ). But I think Pervok implemented something also ... so one could actually make multiple approaches to really dynamic scenes. Some folks even made 2d sequences of images that gave a 2d animation for some toys or H5 objects. 

 

[footlover]

Perfect discussion

Unfortunately I´m so far not deep enough into modding that I could help in some way. For the moment I will read carefully...

[Euphie]

2 hours ago, x17 said:

@EJAX

 

Weights and morphs are different - weights is the amount of influence that bones have over vertex groups and vertices on the mesh. So in our case, the mesh of the body is weight painted according to the armature,

The weights can even influence the morphs, but that depends, as the morphs can be made to fix any "imperfections" when posing the mesh. So, the morphs are straightforward manipulation of vertices to achieve a new look of certain area without the need to reweight everything.

 

The morphs ( dynamic morphs ) we have only for VX ... where we control the mesh of body or any asset with sliders, the morphs that were made in Blender, then exported into the game. @Euphie made some amazing stuff, and she is the "main brain" behind the dynamic morphs you see today in VX. Overall, from what Im seeing ( recently when I dug around that sound code for that radio ) is that the game is capable of much more than we think or thought about ... its mainly just about experimentation and connecting pieces to understand what piece of code does what. And, unfortunately, its really not simple ... but its doable.

Oh, I really wish you guys would stop saying it so literally  I just had an idea, using other people's ideas, and then someone else had an idea to use my idea... Overall I did what you are talking about here, these experiments and connecting elements. And drinking a lot of coffee. And then bam! Morphs appeared

Anyway, I'm intrigued all the time and often think back to this other way of implementing morphs - same as corrective morphs in sammrchssn Realistic Female body (full version, the one with additional script in addition to the body file) or in one of the bodies made by an artist previously known as hootie  Or in Amber by Morokei. There, morphs are not controlled by sliders but by bone movements, automatically. Therefore, for example, when the arm is raised high, the morph automatically corrects the places where the weighings do undesirable deformations - something like a force limiting the weighing range but not changing the power of the weighing. Probably the only way that you can achieve an effect that looks like dynamically changing weight values (I don't think that something like this is literally possible)  

In the Amber addon, it's even different, Morokei has linked some morphs from G3F, such as eye blink or tongue movements directly to the eyelid and tongue movement from the base body - which are, technically, morphs as well. Thus, morphs can be used to control other morphs, just as armature bones can do so, bypassing "traditional" (let's call it) weighing. I wonder how it can be used in an interesting and useful way 

But sorry, I got waaay off topic here  It was about the feet before that! 

[onevision]

5 minutes ago, Euphie said:

There, morphs are not controlled by sliders but by bone movements, automatically. Therefore, for example, when the arm is raised high, the morph automatically corrects the places where the weighings do undesirable deformations

Like feet (definitely not off topic) , shoulders and forearms (when twisted) , a real pain in the arse when making poses. Sometimes I'm forced to renounce to an otherwise interesting idea, because the resulting pose would look awful.

[x17]

@Euphie

 

Yep, I forgot to mention also Raistin Kane's work on morphs ( theoretically ) but you have first put it in practice as dynamic morphs.

For the armature movements controlling / "activating" other morphs, I dont have clear vision yet, but I think its related to driver control in Blender - its truly something that I MUST fully comprehend to utilize everything properly. Plus to fix one particular morph. And also, that would give us a proper solution without the need to extensively alter the armature. There is a way to implement "controlling bones" that will make the same effect, but I think morphs are much better in this case, whenever possible. 

Now you have made me to look into this deeper - you know me, I wont rest until we got a proper body "form"  ... and I need to finalize the body before clothes are ported - well primarily footwear only, but Im a bit uneasy about out-of-the-box compatibility of old default body clothes with this body, even if body is more or less same - because there would be always a little bit of misalignment here and there. So, maybe some corrective morphs will be needed once I port everything and see the results.

Unsure for Amber body, but it could also be that multiple morphs were combined into one - thats very possible to make.

Overall, I have a good feeling - and feel happy about the direction modding is going for TK17 

[x17]

@onevision 

I have fixed a bit elbow joints and shoulders ... but not completely and fully. Its a bit better, but not like feet. Also same with knee joints. Its all a pain in the arse ( even when you attempt to weight it properly ) , but I think Ill finally fix this all before its released to the maximum. It already looks better than before, so its at least improvement from default one.

[HDiddy]

Many things can be changed with some slight morphs keeping the weights the same and maximum compatibility with clothes and shoes.  Creating a new morphing body based on Female Body V2 to be able to morph everything from the neck to the toes.  The Default Female Morphing Body is great, but I think Female Body V2 provides a more natural looking shape especially with the slightly bow legged knees and butt dimples.

My thought is that by reducing the heal a bit, and some more curvature morphs on the side, and morphs for the arch it would create a much better looking foot.  In addition to that There should be shape morphs for the toes especially when dealing with shoes like stilettos. Stilettos squeeze the shit out toes...so being able to mimic that makes sense.

[Guest]

i think an ability for get fat or thin foot  by morthing thickness is a good way to custom a suitable foot that have natural view i think in new woman morth body mod need one more morthing just like this